|
|
Post by Phobic of Tragedy on Apr 11, 2005 18:08:53 GMT -5
2) heartless, what does legality and government have to do with killing/murder? murder has nothing to do with government. when you kill a person(or fetus which will become a person) you do destroy their chances of living/survivng. is that not the definition of MURDER Legality has a lot to do with murder. If it weren't for the laws against it, it would just be death. Miscarriages and stillbirthds destroy the fetus' chance of living/surviving, but that's not murder. The immediate definition of murder, the first thing that comes to mind, is unlawful killing of another person. Destroying one's chances is more of a description of what murder can do. |
|
|
|
Post by *xoxo* on Apr 12, 2005 10:49:27 GMT -5
I realized that. But it does have to be a person and it does have to be unlawful. I already pointed this out, but since you're not getting it, it's not worth pointing out again. No, I brought it up far before you did, thanks. i'm sorry i stand corrected i didn't see ur post of definitions  BUT what about this definition: The premature expulsion of a nonviable fetus from the uterus; a miscarriage. miscarriage:The premature expulsion of a nonviable fetus from the uterus. Also called spontaneous abortion. expulsion:The act of expelling or the state of being expelled. expelled: To force or drive out: expel an invader. To discharge from or as if from a receptacle: expelled a sigh of relief. To force to leave; deprive of membership: expelled the student from college for cheating. deprive: To take something away from: The court ruling deprived us of any share in the inheritance. To keep from possessing or enjoying; deny: They were deprived of a normal childhood by the war. To remove from office. |
|
|
|
Post by *xoxo* on Apr 12, 2005 10:51:34 GMT -5
the point i'm trying to get at here is that these are all related somehow..and how is DEPRIVING a life from *living* right? and i still think abortion is murder b/c ur stopping a life from being born. i think it's morally wrong also. i think it sux.
|
|
Lady
Average Poster
I swear i would rip out my heart if you said you'd be impressed
Posts: 238
|
Post by Lady on Apr 12, 2005 15:46:39 GMT -5
Miscarriages and stillbirthds destroy the fetus' chance of living/surviving, but that's not murder. yes, but miscarriages and still births are not premetitated and carried out by another human, are they? No, they aren't. therefore you can not try and compare them to an abortion which IS premetitated and carried out by another human. |
|
|
|
Post by Phobic of Tragedy on Apr 12, 2005 18:49:46 GMT -5
the point i'm trying to get at here is that these are all related somehow..and how is DEPRIVING a life from *living* right? and i still think abortion is murder b/c ur stopping a life from being born. i think it's morally wrong also. i think it sux. Again, I never said that it was right-at least not for everyone. But my point is that something being wrong to someone does not make it murder. Vegetarians could think eating meat it wrong, does that make someone who eats meat a murderer? Some Indian religions saying that women who don't cover their face are wrong, does that make me not covering my face murder? No. And you're not stopping a life from being born, as there really is no life until birth. You are stopping a fetus from being born-a fetus which has no sense of pain or thought. It is not morally wrong for some, and it seems to me that hte only reason it is morally wrong to you is because you *believe* the bible says it's murder. yes, but miscarriages and still births are not premetitated and carried out by another human, are they? No, they aren't. therefore you can not try and compare them to an abortion which IS premetitated and carried out by another human. Lots of things are premeditated and carried out by other humans. The decision to go to school this morning was premeditated and carried out by me, a human. Does that make me a murderer now? |
|
Lady
Average Poster
I swear i would rip out my heart if you said you'd be impressed
Posts: 238
|
Post by Lady on Apr 12, 2005 21:41:23 GMT -5
Lots of things are premeditated and carried out by other humans. The decision to go to school this morning was premeditated and carried out by me, a human. Does that make me a murderer now? You make absolutley no sense. what does going to school have to do with ending an unborn childs life? now i know that they are both *premeditated* but they have nothing to do with eachother. one is to educate a human being to help that person *GROW* and the other is *ENDING* a human and keeping it from growing. i don't think you thought very hard on that statement. try using a better example. |
|
|
|
Post by Phobic of Tragedy on Apr 12, 2005 23:03:17 GMT -5
You make absolutley no sense. what does going to school have to do with ending an unborn childs life? now i know that they are both *premeditated* but they have nothing to do with eachother. one is to educate a human being to help that person *GROW* and the other is *ENDING* a human and keeping it from growing. i don't think you thought very hard on that statement. try using a better example. The decision to get in the car and drive is premeditated, but when there's an accident, is that murder? That deals with ending a human and keeping it from growing. |
|
Lady
Average Poster
I swear i would rip out my heart if you said you'd be impressed
Posts: 238
|
Post by Lady on Apr 13, 2005 15:36:06 GMT -5
The decision to get in the car and drive is premeditated, but when there's an accident, is that murder? That deals with ending a human and keeping it from growing. still not a good example No, b/c that is an ACCIDENT, meanin it was not planned ahead. abortion is pre-planned.Your meaning to kill an unborn child. car accidents you don't mean to kill someone. unless your an extremley disturbed person and you meant to do it then you are a murderer. |
|
|
|
Post by *xoxo* on Apr 14, 2005 11:00:34 GMT -5
yes, but miscarriages and still births are not premetitated and carried out by another human, are they? No, they aren't. therefore you can not try and compare them to an abortion which IS premetitated and carried out by another human. that what is it?? |
|
|
|
Post by *xoxo* on Apr 14, 2005 11:00:52 GMT -5
still not a good example No, b/c that is an ACCIDENT, meanin it was not planned ahead. abortion is pre-planned.Your meaning to kill an unborn child. car accidents you don't mean to kill someone. unless your an extremley disturbed person and you meant to do it then you are a murderer. exactly. |
|
Lady
Average Poster
I swear i would rip out my heart if you said you'd be impressed
Posts: 238
|
Post by Lady on Apr 14, 2005 14:04:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by *xoxo* on Apr 15, 2005 8:26:09 GMT -5
lol i quoted the wrong quote..sorry; i meant what are u supposed to call preventing the life cycle of a fetus if it's not murder? dont u think it's a form of murder? it's preventing a life from living
|
|
|
|
Post by Shodan on Apr 15, 2005 10:15:57 GMT -5
lol i quoted the wrong quote..sorry; i meant what are u supposed to call preventing the life cycle of a fetus if it's not murder? dont u think it's a form of murder? it's preventing a life from living replace murder with killing and you are more on track, as murder is technically illegal killing, as was pointed out on the other thread. so then, if it is wrong because is it killing, so then is animal slaughter for food or clothing (animals are life), logging or even weeding your garden (trees and weeds are life), showering (bacteria are life), etc. |
|
Lady
Average Poster
I swear i would rip out my heart if you said you'd be impressed
Posts: 238
|
Post by Lady on Apr 15, 2005 17:51:19 GMT -5
replace murder with killing and you are more on track, as murder is technically illegal killing, as was pointed out on the other thread. so then, if it is wrong because is it killing, so then is animal slaughter for food or clothing (animals are life), logging or even weeding your garden (trees and weeds are life), showering (bacteria are life), etc. 1) i really don't see the difference in Killing and Murder. either way an innocent life is cut short 2)again we are talking about HUMANS not animals, or weeds or anything like that. yes they are all life but they do not run the world. they do not Modernize, create things( i mean nonliving things, they dont create that) |
|
|
|
Post by Phobic of Tragedy on Apr 15, 2005 18:04:01 GMT -5
1) i really don't see the difference in Killing and Murder. either way an innocent life is cut short Then you're extremely ignorant, as it's been pointed out numerous times now. Murder-Illegal Killing-Not Illegal MURDER: The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice. KILLING: 1. To put to death. 2. To deprive of life: The Black Death was a disease that killed millions. To put an end to; extinguish: The rain killed our plans for a picnic. 1. To destroy a vitally essential quality in: Too much garlic killed the taste of the meat. 2. To cause to cease operating; turn off: killed the motor. 3. To tire out completely; exhaust: “The trip to work, and the boredom and nervousness of jobs, kills men” (Jimmy Breslin). |
|
BUT what about this definition: The premature expulsion of a nonviable fetus from the uterus; a miscarriage. 
